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Subject: SHOULD YOU BELIEVE IN TRINITY?
Replies: 40 Views: 1764
coolit 21.03.09 - 12:08am
Trinity: The central doctrine of religions of Christendom. According to the Athanasian Creed, there are 3 divine Persons( the Father, the Son, the Holy Ghost), each said to be eternal, each said to be almighty, none greater or less than another, each said to be God, and yet together being but one God. Other statements of the dogma emphasize that these 3 'Persons' are not separate and distinct individuals but are 3 modes in which the divine essence exists. Thus some Trinitarians emphasize their belief that Jesus Christ is God, or that Jesus and the Holy Ghost are Jehovah. - (Trinity is not a Bible teaching.) *
coolit 21.03.09 - 03:58am
WHAT IS THE ORIGIN OF TRINITY? Trinitarians feel that the doctrine of Trinity originated from the bible. However, this is not true. Consider what the most trusted encyclopedias have to say: *
coolit 21.03.09 - 04:04am
THE NEW ENCLOPEDIA BRITANNICA says: ' Neither the word Trinity, nor the explicit doctrine as such, appears in the New Testament, nor did Jesus and his followers intend to contradict the Shema in the Old Testament: 'Hear, O Israel: The Lord (YHWH) our God is one Lord (YHWH) -Deut 6:4.... The doctrine developed gradually over several centuries and through many controversies... By the end of the 4th century... the doctrine of the Trinity took substantially the form it has maintained ever since.' Vol X p 126 *
coolit 21.03.09 - 04:19am
Let me digest it for you. According to the said enclopaedia, the word or doctrine of Trinity DOES NOT appear in the New Testament. It also says that Jesus and his followers DID NOT contradict the Shema in the OT: Lord our God is one Lord, meaning the Jews were strictly Unitarians- they worship just one Almighty God and that is Jehovah God. It also says that the doctrine of trinity 'gradually developed over several centuries', so this means that the trinity was never taught during the writting of the bible, i.e, from 1513 b.c.e. to 98 c.e. Moreover, the doctrine of trinity, as it is now, was only taught in Christendom during the end of the 4th century C.E. *
coolit 21.03.09 - 04:26am
Let's take another. The NEW CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA states: 'The formulation 'one God in three Persons' was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century. But it is precisely this formulation that has first claim to the title 'the Trinitarian dogma.' Among the Apostolic Fathers, there had been nothing even remotely approaching such a mentality or perspective.' vol XIV, p. 299 *
coolit 21.03.09 - 04:41am
Now let's us take a closer look on what the 2nd enclopedia has to say: according to the said enclopedia, the 'formulation, '3 in 1' was NOT solidly established prior to the end of 4th century. So this agrees with Encyclopaedia Britannica! Clearly, before the 4th century, trinity doctrine was never taught among true Christians. Further, it says that among the 'Apostolic Fathers' none of them had a mentality or perspective of the trinity doctrine. It is worth noting that the 'great apostacy' developed during the 4th century. IS TRINITY DOCTRINE A PART OF THE APOSTACY? The records show. *
coolit 21.03.09 - 04:50am
Wait there's more! In the ENCYCLOPEDIA AMERICANA we read: 'Christianity derived from Judaism and Judaism was strictly Unitarian. The road which led from Jerusalem to Nicea was scarcely a straight one. Fourth century Trinitarianism did not reflect accurately early Christian teaching regarding the nature of God; it was, on the contrary, a deviation from this teaching.' vol xxvii, p. 294L. *
coolit 21.03.09 - 04:59am
This time let's have a microscopic view on the 3rd enclopedia. Does it agree with the 1st and 2nd? Absolutely! Consider what it says: Trinitarianism is 'a CONTRARY; A DEVIATION from early Christian teaching'! What does the passage imply as to the start of trinity doctrine?- 4th century! So 3 encyclopedias agree that 'trinity doctrine' came out during the 4th century- the start of great apostacy!--(note: True Christians do not believe the trinity doctrine, not because of what these encyclopdias say, but because the Bible itself does not teach trinity doctrine- (3 in 1 god). The presentation of what the enclopedias say about trinity aims to answer the question: What is the origin of trinity? ...True worshippers do not base their Christian beliefs on secular writtings.) *
coolit 21.03.09 - 05:15am
So, if the trinity doctrine did not originate from the bible, and early God's servants, where did it come from? The CHRISTIAN CENTURY, in its May 20-27, 1998, issue, quotes a pastor who acknowledges that the Trinity is 'A TEACHING OF THE CHURCH RATHER THAN A TEACHING OF JESUS.' -The bible warns us: 'Look out! Perhaps there may be someone who will carry you off as his prey through the philosopy and empty deception according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary things of the world and not according to Christ.(Col 2:8) The trinity is just a philosophy of men, a formulation of the apostate church.. So look out! *
coolit 21.03.09 - 09:34am
IN WHAT POSITION DOES BELIEF IN THE TRINITY PUT THOSE WHO CLING TO IT? It puts them in a very dangerous position. The evidence is indisputable that the dogma of trinity is not found in the Bible, nor is it in harmony with what the Bible teaches. It grossly misrepresents the true God. Yet, Jesus said: 'The hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshippers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for such the Father seeks to worship him. God is a spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.'(John 4:23,24, RS) Thus Jesus made clear that those whose worship is not 'in truth' not in harmony with the truth set out in the Bible, are not 'true worshippers.' To Jewish religious leaders of the 1st century, Jesus said: 'For the sake of your tradition, you have made void the word of God. You hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy of you, when he said: 'This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me: in vain do the worship me, teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.'(Matt 15:6-9RS) That applies with equal force to those in Christendom today who advocate human traditions in preference to the clear truths of the Bible. *
coolit 21.03.09 - 09:40am
Regarding the trinity, the Athanasian Creed says that its members are 'incomprehensible.' Teachers of the doctrine often state that it is a 'mystery.' Obviously such a trinitarian God is not the one that Jesus had in mind when he said: 'We worship what we know.' (John 4:22) Do you really know the God you worship? *
coolit 22.03.09 - 04:25am
TRINITARIANS ACKNOWLEDGE THAT NEITHER THE WORD 'TRINITY' NOR A STATEMENT OF TRINITARIAN DOGMA IS FOUND IN THE BIBLE. NEVERTHELESS, THEY CLAIM THAT THE IDEA OR CONCEPT OF TRINITY IS IN THE BIBLE. Is this true? Does the concept of 3 in 1 God found in the Bible? Let's find out! *
coolit 22.03.09 - 04:36am
According to the trinitarian dogma the 3 Persons: FATHER, SON, and HOLY SPIRIT are NOT SEPARATE INDIVIDUALS, meaning JESUS IS JEHOVAH, and JESUS IS ALSO THE HOLY SPIRIT. Does the Bible agree with this? A big NO! *
coolit 22.03.09 - 04:43am
Let us consider two passages. (1) Matthew 26:39 RS: ' Going a little farther (Jesus Christ) fell on his face and prayed, 'MY FATHER, IF IT BE POSSIBLE, LET THIS CUP PASS FROM ME; NEVERTHELESS, NOT AS I WILL, BUT AS THOU WILT.' *
coolit 22.03.09 - 04:59am
Now, we study the words of Jesus carefully. In the passage above, Jesus is reported that he was PRAYING. To whom? To his FATHER! What did Jesus ask from his Father? Jesus asked that 'this cup' (death on torture stake) pass from him, if it's possible. But Jesus added: 'N0T AS I WILL, BUT AS THOU WILT.' -If the FATHER and the SON were not separate individuals, such a prayer would be meaningless. Jesus would have been praying to himself. Take a closer look at his words: NOT AS I WILL, BUT AS THOU WILT. Clearly, the Father and the SON are separate and distinct individuals! *
coolit 22.03.09 - 05:12am
But that's not all! John 8:17,18RS says: (Jesus answered the Jewish Pharisees): 'In your law it is written that the testimony of TWO men is true; I bear witness to myself, and the Father who sent me bears witness to me.' -what do you understand? *
coolit 22.03.09 - 05:23am
In the Mosaic Law (Law given to Moses): the testimony of TWO men is true. Thus, the Law requires TWO separate individuals to give testimonies on a certain case. Jesus, after refering to that particular Law, said, I BEAR WITNESS TO MYSELF_ and the FATHER WHO SENT ME BEARS WITNESS TO ME. So, Jesus definitely spoke of himself as being an individual separate and distinct from his Father. *
coolit 23.03.09 - 06:21am
SOME TRINITARIANS ADMIT THAT THE FATHER, THE SON AND THE HOLY SPIRIT ARE SEPARATE INDIVIDUALS. HOWEVER, THEY SAY THAT THE PERSONS IN THE TRINITY ARE ALL EQUAL, THAT ALL ARE ALMIGHTY. IS THIS CORRECT? Hardly! *
coolit 23.03.09 - 06:24am
Consider the words of Jesus recorded at MARK 13:32 RS: 'Of that day or that hour no ones knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.' *
coolit 23.03.09 - 06:36am
Here, Jesus explained that there were some things that neither he nor the angels knew but that were known only by his Father. Trinitarians reason out that Jesus was limited by his human nature from knowing. But the question is: Why did the Holy Spirit not know? Don't the trinitarians say that the Father, Son, Holy Spirit comprise one Godhead? How come that only one of them, i.e., the Father, knows that certain 'hour'? *
coolit 23.03.09 - 06:42am
The answer is found at the words of Jesus at John 14:28 ... 'THE FATHER IS GREATER THAN I.' Hence, the trinity dogma is proven wrong. Jesus is not equal to his Father. *
coolit 23.03.09 - 06:47am
Nevertheless, trinitarians would find means, even twisting the bible's message, to uphold their belief. They would say: 'JESUS WAS LOWER THAN HIS FATHER ONLY WHILE HE WAS A MAN ON EARTH.' Does the bible teach this? Again, NO. *
coolit 23.03.09 - 06:58am
Jesus was resurrected and ascended to heaven in 33 c.e.. Some 20 years later, apostle Paul wrote: 'God is supreme over Christ.'(1Co 11:3 TEV) So, even now that Jesus is in heaven, he is still lower than God. In the book of Revelation, the resurrected Jesus still spoke of his Father as 'my God.' (Rev. 3:2, 12). Clearly, both on earth and in heaven, Jesus call his Father: 'my God.'(see Matthew 27:46; Rev 3:2,12) *
coolit 24.03.09 - 03:06am
This time, let's examine another erronous argument of the trinitarian dogma. According to that doctrine, the 3 parts of Trinity are all eternal, none having a beginning. Is this true? It is again N0. *
coolit 24.03.09 - 03:11am
Revelations 3:14 will clear out the matter. We read: (JESUS CHRIST saying:) ' ' 'And to the angel of the church of Laodicea write: The words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the BEGINNING (Greek, arkhe) of God's creation.' ' ' *
coolit 24.03.09 - 03:22am
Now, open your spiritual mind and eyes, and study the words of Jesus. In the passage above, Jesus called himself: 'THE BEGINNING OF GOD'S CREATION'. The one speaking here is Jesus! He himself said it. We should not allow the philosophy of men- trinitarian dogma- obscure this clear truth. Jesus had a beginning. According to him, he is the first creation of the Almighty God. He is the beginning of God's creation. *
coolit 28.03.09 - 04:00am
So no matter what the trinitarians do, they cannot force the bible to teach the trinity. It should also be noted at the outset that most of the texts used as (so called) 'proof' of the trinity actually mention only two persons, not three; so even if the trinitarian explanation of the texts were correct, these would not prove that the Bible teaches the trinity. What does the bible really teach about JEHOVAH, JESUS, AND THE HOLY SPIRIT? Consider the following: *
coolit 28.03.09 - 04:28am
The faithful ancient Israelites, so did the patriarchs, strictly worshiped ONE God. Deut. 6:4 says: 'JEHOVAH OUR GOD IS ONE JEHOVAH.' When Jesus came to earth, he DID NOT contradict this truth. He never taught the pagan triune god. He never claimed to be God. Instead, he taught that he is the Son of God(John 10:36); that his Father is greater than him(John 14:28); that his Father Jehovah God must be the only one to be worshiped(Matt 4:10). What about the holy spirit? The bible never teaches that the holy spirit is a God. No bible character ever prayed to the holy spirit; no one ever worshiped the holy spirit. The holy spirit is not a God. It is God's active force. (Ps 104:30; Nu 11:25; Acts 2:17,18) Clearly, there is no 3 in 1 God. The Almighty God is Jehovah(Exo 6:3). The Only-Begotten Son of God is Jesus(John 3:16). I hope at this time you can now clearly understand what Jesus said at John 17:3: 'And this means everlasting life, their taking in knowlegde of you, THE ONLY TRUE GOD, and the one whom you sent forth, JESUS CHRIST.' *
coolit 7.04.09 - 10:06pm
(to be continued) *
yster123 11.04.09 - 11:35pm
If u pray, do u pray in Jesus name? Thnks lot. *
coolit 12.04.09 - 06:17am
Yes. I pray to Jehovah in the name of Jesus. What does that mean? Jesus is the only 'way' to the Father.(John 14:6) He is the only 'mediator' between men and God. (1Ti 2:5) I can never draw close to Jehovah God without his Son Jesus. That is why I pray in Jesus' name; that my prayers would be heared by God. *
yster123 12.04.09 - 10:15am
U realy work hard in your topics coolit. thnks! *
coolit 20.04.09 - 11:43pm
WHAT DOES THE BIBLE really TEACH ABOUT GOD? :BIBLE'S IDENTIFICATION OF GOD IS CLEAR, UNDERSTANDABLE: ...(1)John 4:24,AV'God is a Spirit... (2)1 Cor. 8:6'To us there is but ONE GOD, the Father.' (3) Ps. 83:18' That men may know thou, whose name ALONE is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth.' Bible's teaching about God is VERY clear: God is a Spirit, God is one, God's name is Jehovah. *
coolit 21.04.09 - 12:02am
Jesus Christ NOT One God with the Father: 1 Cor 8:6'For us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.' It is Very clear that the Bible teaches that God, the Father is separate from Jesus Christ. *
coolit 21.04.09 - 12:11am
THE FATHER IS JESUS' GOD 1)John 20:17... I (Jesus) ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and TO MY GOD, and your God.' 2)1 Pet. 1:3 'Blessed be the GOD AND FATHER of our Lord Jesus Christ.' 3)Mark 15:34 Jesus cried...My GOD, my GOD why hast thou forsaken me?' (see also Rev 3:12) CLEARLY, Jesus is not the God. It is his Father. *
coolit 21.04.09 - 12:21am
Jesus called his Father the 'ONLY TRUE GOD', excluding himself: John 17:1,3 'When Jesus had spoken these words, he lifted up his eyes to heaven and said, 'FATHER, the hour has come, glorify thy Son that the Son may glorify thee. And this is eternal life, that the know thee the ONLY true God,... and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.' Isn't it CLEAR how Jesus called his Father, 'the only true God'? If Jesus was a part of the 3 in 1 god, why would he call his Father, 'the only true God'? *
coolit 21.04.09 - 12:23am
JESUS IS THE SON OF GOD, NOT GOD THE SON 1)Matt 16:16' Simon Peter answered and said: Thou (Jesus) art the Christ, THE SON OF THE LIVING GOD... 2)1John 4:15 Whoever confesses that Jesus is THE SON OF GOD, God abides in him. 3) John 1:34 I(John,the baptist) have seen and have borne witness that this is (Jesus), THE SON OF GOD. 4)John 3:16 For GOD so loved the world, that he gave his ONLY BEGOTTEN SON... It's so CLEAR that Jesus is THE SON OF GOD, NOT GOD THE SON. *
coolit 21.04.09 - 02:18am
Jesus is NOT GOD but MEDIATOR between God and men
1 Ti 2:5,6 There is one God,- and one Mediator between God and men, the man, Christ Jesus... The text is very CLEAR, Jesus is the Mediator between GOD and Men. Why is Jesus called 'Mediator' if he is the God himself? The Bible's teaching is very clear: Jesus is not the God. *
coolit 21.04.09 - 02:29am
JESUS HIMSELF DID not CLAIM TO BE GOD BUT GOD'S representative
1) John 10:36... because I (Jesus) said: I AM THE SON OF GOD... 2) John 5:37 The FATHER himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness to me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
Again, these passages are clear. Jesus never claimed to be God but he said 'I AM GOD'S SON'. He also said that NO MAN HAS SEEN THE FATHER and FATHER SENT HIM. *
coolit 21.04.09 - 02:46am
Jesus IS NOT EQUAL TO THE FATHER in power and glory: but subject to Him 1) John 14:28 My FATHER IS GREATER than I. 2) John 5:19 ... the Son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing. 3) Luke 22:41,42 ...(Jesus) kneeled down, and prayed: FATHER, IF THOU BE WILLING, REMOVE THIS CUP FROM ME, NEVERTHELESS NOT MY WILL, BUT THINE, BE DONE. Do you see the CLEAR Bible's teaching in these texts? The FATHER IS GREATER THAN JESUS. *
coolit 21.04.09 - 03:03am
EVEN IN HEAVEN JESUS IS SUBJECT TO THE FATHER 1) 1 Cor 11:3 ... and the head of Christ is God 2) Rev 3:12 ... I will make him a pillar in the temple OF MY GOD... I will write upon him the name of MY GOD and the name of the city of MY GOD... Which descends out of heaven from MY GOD... CLEAR? Take note: at Rev 3:12, Jesus addressed his Father 'MY GOD' 4 TIMES! Just in one verse! Clearly, whether on earth or in heaven, Jesus is subject to the Father, his God. *
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